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Nayzak — Islam says no to rape
Published: 2014-08-13 13:58:29 +0000 UTC; Views: 44017; Favourites: 289; Downloads: 142
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Assalaamu alaikum [peace be to you],Normally, today's topic is obvious that I shouldn't have to talk about it. but there is so much misunderstanding and confusion in this topic caused by the misconceptions propagated by islamophobes and the mistakes made by some ignorant Muslims that it became important to point out what's the Islamic stance in this issue.
the misconception I'd like to address is: "Under Shari'ah law, a raped women is punished for adultery if she fails to provide four witnesses of her rape." I know this sounds nonsensical, but truth be told, there are people out there who are propagating it as "Islamic teaching".
The Arabic word اغتصاب ightisaab refers to taking something wrongfully by force. It is now used exclusively to refer to transgression against the honour of women by force (rape).
Rape is an abhorrent crime and an abominable sin. This heinous crime is forbidden not only in Islam but in all religions, and all people of sound thinking and pure human nature reject it. Islam has a clear stance which states that this repugnant action is haraam (forbidden) and imposes a deterrent punishment on the one who commits it (the rapist). This crime is punishable by death.
But wait. before you object to this harsh punishment, out of compassion, you need to know that when compassion is put in the wrong place, it may lead to the spread of crime in society and it'll lead to far more dangerous consequences than the death of one person. in Islam, capital punishments are only reserved for the most extreme crimes which harm individual victims or destabilize society. Rape falls into both of these categories. Rape is a horrible crime which causes a women humiliation and physical and emotional harm. Islam takes very seriously the honor and protection of women. The Qur'an repeatedly reminds men to treat women with kindness and fairness. besides, Islam closes the door to the men who might want to commit this crime by providing many preventive measures. but when the horrible crime is committed, harsh punishments are required to protect society and individuals.
Evidence Required???Does Islam require a victim to provide four witnesses before it can be proven that she was raped?
This is, unfortunately, a very common and very serious misconception amongst many non-Muslims (and even Muslims). The very short answer to the question is: NO. Islam does not require a woman to produce any eye-witnesses to prove that she was raped. her testimony is enough.
In the Qur'an, it is made clear that four witnesses are required to prove adultery (not rape. don't be confused) — for example, if a man accuses a woman of committing adultery, he needs to bring four impeccable witnesses (who have seen the intercourse act) to back up his claim. if he fails, then the accuser is to be punished severely for slander (falsely accusing a woman and attempting to ruin her). and he's never to be trusted to give evidence again. If four witnesses are produced, the woman may still take a solemn oath swearing her own innocence, and if she does so her word is taken above the words of the accusers and she is to be considered blameless (Islamophobes insist that in Islam, woman's testimony is always half of the man's. here's a good example to refute their baseless allegation). These extensive protections suggest that it would be foolish to believe that Islam would ever require a woman to go through the pain and suffering of providing four witnesses to her rape.
Some people seem to confuse Islamic law by equating rape to sex outside of marriage (adultery or fornication) which is another serious crime. However, Islamic legal scholars have deduced from the Qur’an and Hadith that the crime of rape falls under a different category. Adultery is a crime which involves the consent of both parties involved, and therefore both parties are equally responsible for the sin. Rape, on the other hand, is an act of non-consensual violence, and therefore carries with it different legal proceedings, and different punishments. Rape falls under the category of حرابه hirabah (terrorism and crimes of violence), and is defined as any form of non-consensual sex, where the victim was coerced into the situation against her will.
Thanks for the great revolution that has taken place in the field of science. forensics, among other methods, becomes more adept at providing physical evidence of sexual assault, such evidence is more commonly accepted. This has made it easier for criminal experts to lay their hands on clear evidence that paves way for justice to run its course.
Punishing the Victim?Islam maintains that any woman, who, despite doing her utmost to resist the thug, is raped, is not guilty of any sin. This is since the situation is beyond her control, and anyone who is forced to do something is not guilty of sin. The Prophet Mohammed -peace be upon him- said: "Allah has forgiven for my Ummah (nation) for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do."There is no Islamic precedence for punishing the victim of sexual assault, even if the assault is not proven. The only exception is if a woman is found to have deliberately and falsely accused an innocent person. In such a case, she may be prosecuted for slander (falsely accusing a man and attempting to ruin him), which is another major crime in Islam.
Sadly, there have been cases where women have attempted to initiate a rape complaint, but ended up being prosecuted and punished for adultery. One such case happened in Somalia in 1998. These cases demonstrate a lack of compassion and a clear violation of Islamic law.
It should be noted that rape is a crime of violence, and is not "caused" by a woman's actions in any way. Women should always use caution, however, and be aware of their personal safety. But anyone who is forced to do something is not guilty of any sin.
Islam is clear in its treatment of rape and rapists, and takes the crime very seriously. Unfortunately, there are some Muslim scholars and so called Muslim governments that continue to punish women who have suffered rape, and justify the punishment in the name of Islam. To change things, it is important to take the first step – educate yourself and those around you. Learn the truth and know the difference between what Islam teaches and what some misguided Muslims do. Do not harbor false and harmful misconceptions.
There are many more things to say in this subject, but I don't want to make this article longer than it already is. so I think this suffice for today. I hope this was beneficial for you.
references:
What does Islam say about rape? islam.about.com/od/crime/f/rap…
Islamic punishment for rape www.onislam.net/english/ask-th…
Are raped women punished in Islam? www.onislam.net/english/ask-ab…
Do women need 4 witnesses to prove rape? muslimgirl.net/6728/do-women-n…
If I'm right, it's from the God almighty. if I'm wrong, it's from myself.
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Comments: 179
So how come muslims are statistically over 10 times more likely to commit rape crimes in some countries than the heretical non-believers subject to the same laws?
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Because mohammed the cunt said so.
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Huh....lots of bigoted comments.
By their logic, the Bible's old testament also condones rape.
Don't these idiots know that every religion will have barbarians?
Religion does completely make one person good.
Morals do.
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Muhammad himself had sex with women conquered as spoils of war so yeah it does in fact condone rape. You can play semantical games but bottom line it is rape
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it's not rape if you pay the father 50 silver pieces
:thumb472815167:
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Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.
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No to rape? Bullshit! If Islam is so opposed to rape, then they should use better tactics to prove the victim's rape. Four male witnesses required to prove a woman's rape incident is a horrible method! What if there are numerous female witnesses? Doesn't count? Significantly unprofessional and careless!
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Stop sending the same comment, what the actual fuck
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So what? are you staff or something? People free to send comments whatever they desired.
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Why's that?
Then if you're not taking me seriously why are you keep commenting?
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Because your comments are absurd and I know your reaction will be funny 
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That method is used for ADULTERY, not rape.
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It's original use MAY have been for adultery, but nowadays that's what rape victims get in Muslim countries, mainly Pakistan, Afghanistan, and 'even' Saudi Arabia. So no.
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What source?
I wanna read it
Stupid article that's lies.
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It's not "one stupid article". It's on a lot of credible sources, because that's how they handle these situations, just like they handle gay people: by killing them 
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Don't insult our religion. You have yours, and I have mine. Does 13 seems a "kid" to you?
And, I never heard there is in Indonesia. And I haven't give you "LIES!!1!" talk.
You are stupid because you haven't learned OURS laws, you should read Al-Qur'an.
Don't judge first. I'm tired of stupid people like you.
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Why, ain't this little comment a freaking pearl
"Don't insult our religion. You have yours, and I have mine. Does 13 seems a "kid" to you?"
Excuse me?
I don't like your religion. I don't like it because I'm strongly against the barbarities that are being condoned over there in 95% of Muslim countries with the support of islamists, and also often, because of Islamists.
And thanks to this cool concept of freedom of speech, if I dislike your ideology, I can atually say it. Thank GODS (you know, Pan, Horus, the cool gods) I wasn't born in Saudi Arabia
And, no, I don't have one. Religion has been and IS a huge obstacle to human development because it's inflexbile and always rooted in old customs. Islam and Christianity are the ones I dislike the most, but Islam takes the cake out of these two. Sharia nowadays is just barbaric. It MAY have been actually an advanced system back when Islam was created (which is what I said in the initial comment), but pfft, that was in the 7th century. We're talking about 2015 now.
And in 2015 you still have women not being allowed to DRIVE in that ridiculous (and the most islamic) country. How do you expect me to support THESE humanities? THESE stupidities? You probably do, but sadly, I don't and won't.
Other cultures have taken a while to develope until things are more or less good (women actually have rights over here, and gays aren't killed by the government in a public square), but the Muslim culture is just... there. Stuck in a time that has long gone by.
"And, I never heard there is in Indonesia. And I haven't give you "LIES!!1!" talk."
I can't be bothered to find the article now, because I know you won't listen or you'll shout lies as you're pretty much trained to do, but a girl has indeed received 50 lashes for being raped. Such humanity. Much love. So peace
Oh, and yes you have. You came up to me and the first thing you said (THREE times 
And YES, 13 is a kid to me. Because, believe it or not, I've BEEN 13, and I KNOW firsthand how immaturely we can behave at that age. So yes, I'm right again.
"You are stupid because you haven't learned OURS laws, you should read Al-Qur'an."
Again: GROW. THE FUCK. UP.
You don't actually know me, so the most retarded thing you could do was say "YOU NEVER DID DIS!!!1!!!". Because...
I've read enough of Saudi laws, Egyptian laws, AND YES, I've read enough of the Quran thing. I've read enough to know it's like the Bible: it has good parts, but it also has dark concepts and dangerous, outdated views.
"Don't judge first. I'm tired of stupid people like you."
You know, kiddo, I USED to actually think Islam was indeed "the religion of peace" or something close to this stereotype crap people shoved us to sugarcoat its true nature and what it's being used for.
But THEN I learned more about it. I read articles, I read fragments, I read testimonials of people who live in these places ruled by Sharia, I read their laws, I studied it.
And I saw that it was terrible.
So I judged after, and after a lot of things.
Oh, and one more thing!
You, kid, are extremely hypocrital. Your whole talk is "don't judge first", but ALL you did was judge me without having ANY idea who I am
So I'll end this just like you did.
I'm tired of stupid people like you.
Have a nice day
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What source?
I wanna read it
Stupid people article stupid lies.
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The sources, btw, are all around, because this is common, especially in Afghanistan c:
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No it isn't. Stop insulting other people country. You have no humanity.
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I'm firmly against these theocratic governments because I have humanity. So don't come around like you're a little god, I mean, a little Allah and start telling people they have no humanity simply because they disagree with the animalistic behaviour of a culture
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I am not telling you have no humanity because of disagree. I am telling because you are insulting other countries. And no, I'm no god. I only believe there's no god but Allah. Masha Allah.
Allah isn't little. You should read articles like this : islam.about.com/od/commonmisco…
ISIS is terrorist that FAKED to be Islam because they HATE Islam. How can you be so stupid? And raping is one of faked to be Islam.
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Ohhhh, so insulting people who lash a kid for getting raped makes me a horrible being?
Horus is cooler tho. OHH, the Finnish gods! Untamo. Tapio. Those are cool too.
Have any proof "Allah" isn't little?
I'm tired of Muslim denial, but what ISIS DOES want is to create a big Islamic califate. So they don't hate Islam. And they're very radical muslims, but they're still muslims.
And no. Just because a Muslim rapes, that doesn't mean he's not a Muslim anymore. You, pacific Muslims, should call them a bad Muslim, but saying it's not a Muslim anymore is the tatic used to sugarcoat all horrible things done whithin Islam.
OH, btw, many rapes by Muslims in European countries, like Sweden, have religious reasons. A Muslim offender said in an interview, upon being caught, that he thought it'd be ok to get the girl just because she wasn't wearing a burqa. So yes, it was a Islamic rape.
And this kind of thing is sadly not as uncommon as you're thinking.
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What source?
I wanna read it
Stupid people article stupid lies.
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The best source, perhaps, though, is the Sharia they use in the places I mentioned
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Who knows, the best source is lies. Not everything is supposed to be trusted.
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This is blatant bullshit. Nobody gives a fuck about woman in Islam.
I wish you Islamic people had the chance to meet some slavic women to kick your ass.
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Actually Islam is the first religion and also the very first concept in the world that gives women around the world right and also most importantly, they are equal to men in speaking of mind, thoughts. Of course when it comes to physics, certain limits are put on both sides.
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And because you say it makes everything true? No offence, but facts do not support what you are saying And we all know how islam treats women.
Also, nor men or women have true rights at all in islamic nations. Every islamic nation in the world is either a monarchy or a totalitarian regime.
Thing is: the world is sick of Islamic violence and it needs to be put to an end.
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look my friend, look at what Islam SAYS about men and women, what happens in Saudi Arabia or anywhere in middle east is the authories own man made laws that restricst women rights, at the SAME time these same countries are run by corrupt, selfish, greedy people who doesnt care about the rest of the people or hwat happens next to their neighbour. Islam disaproves monarchy and total regime, you can look at the Ottoman empire that had Shari'ah law and community where people of other faiths could build and live and follow their faiths.
Yes you're right, the world is SICK of people hijacking Islam, and the biggest source for groups like Al Qaida, ISIS and etc to even exist in this planet is thanks to the western influence, their wars, corruption, assimilation, split betwen groups and causing conflicts, mistrust, and loyalty towards materialistic values over their brethren and sisters. The world and specially the muslims are SICK of media portraying the muslims and Islam in such a bad and well designed fashion, that we muslim do our utter most best effort to counter these misconceptions at were we live and what we hear from people with no knowledge or a twisted mind of Islam.Yes indeed, such thing needs to be put to an end, fast.
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So apparently , accusing Muslims in general of rape and using bawdy words - yes , the F word and such - is ok . Yet , me defending my fellow Muslims in the matter violates the policy and means my comments contain offensive material . How lovely .
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"Define 'doing her utmost'. Because if a woman freezes in fear, people will say she didn't do enough to defend herself. If she kills her rapist in self-defense, she will be accused of murder."
Well I'll be honest with you , I'm not so sure and it's better to ask someone knowledgeable . This might help :
Rulings on the crime of rape :
islamqa.info/en/72338
"That means that, yes, some Muslims DO believe that punishing the victim is okay. That means that, yes, they CAN use your religion to defend their views. You can't just say 'well they're not really Muslim', (the No True Scotsman fallacy) because these are the people who practice your religion and give it a voice and a face---and give you a bad name."
Scotsman or not Scotsman pal , I can use it the same way against you . Be you Christian , Jewish , Atheist , or any other thing . It all returns to proof and evidence . And I don't give a flip about complains because "there are Muslims who do bad things" . Blaming a whole system because of the acts of some individuals is a bigger fallacy than this Scotsman you're trying to bring up .
"For example, when many people who called themselves Muslim started moving to the UK in droves, rape rates went through the roof. Many, many, many Muslims said that the white UK women were 'provoking' it, or 'deserved' it, because they weren't 'modest' (i.e., did not veil)."
It's sickening how you blame Muslims for all your problems . They claim the same exact thing is happening in Sweden and Norway . Guess what ? It's a complete myth and I can show you if you need to . They used to claim the same with black people . You should know better than believing whatever nonsense that is said on the fly without investigating . That's firstly . Secondly , we are NOT obliged to apologize for every single act done by those who claim to be Muslims . I don't see YOU doing it with terrorist Christians , Jews , or Atheists . I don't see the Buddhists apologizing for the acts of those thugs in Burma against our brothers and sisters or for the Tamillian Tigers . Yes , we have Quran and Sunnah to prove them wrong from . But we don't have to apologize for something we didn't do and we don't even approve of . Saying otherwise , pal , is a far bigger fallacy .
"sociologists the world over have acknowledged that societies founded on male-based monotheistic religions tend to be high-rape"
No offense but , are you FLIPPING kidding me ?!
www.nationmaster.com/country-i…
And if you dare play the card of "Muslims don't record rape crimes because they blame the victims" then you can't deny this :
www.worldhunger.org/articles/0…
You want to blame religion for your own problems caused by yourselves .
Ibn Majah :
[“The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned to us and said: ‘O Muhajirun, there are five things with which you will be tested, and I seek refuge with Allah lest you live to see them: Immorality never appears among a people to such an extent that they commit it openly, but plagues and diseases that were never known among the predecessors will spread among them.]
So what , Muslims make AIDS and the rest of its siblings pass under the radar ? When you agitate lust and desires and keep feeding them wherever someone looks , you shouldn't be surprised by the results .
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(Edited to add spaces between paragraphs)
Rulings on the crime of rape : islamqa.info/en/72338
That’s chock-full of victim-blaming.
Scotsman or not Scotsman pal , I can use it the same way against you . Be you Christian , Jewish , Atheist , or any other thing . It all returns to proof and evidence . And I don't give a flip about complains because "there are Muslims who do bad things" . Blaming a whole system because of the acts of some individuals is a bigger fallacy than this Scotsman you're trying to bring up .
I didn’t blame the whole system. I said there are people in his religion who give him (who I called a good person in good faith, in case you didn’t notice) a bad name; that is not the same as saying ‘one person did a bad thing, therefore they are all bad’.
It's sickening how you blame Muslims for all your problems .
When did I do that? I mentioned one problem, and I didn’t say all rapists were Muslim. Nor did I say rape was non-existent before, nor that Muslims created it in the first place.
It's a complete myth and I can show you if you need to .
Please do. And do so without using a Muslim site.
You should know better than believing whatever nonsense that is said on the fly without investigating .
Except that I’ve heard this from various people, and various different accounts and sources.
Secondly , we are NOT obliged to apologize for every single act done by those who claim to be Muslims .
Never said you had to. I’m just saying that there are problems in the system that this particular artist doesn’t seem to want to address. Many people don’t want to address the problems in their own religions/movements/what-have-yous, and this is just one example.
I don't see YOU doing it with terrorist Christians , Jews , or Atheists .
Maybe that’s because you don’t know me, and haven’t seen all the times I do call out Christians, Jews, and Atheists? Could it be? Oh, and did you miss the part where I said "various patriarchal religions (and not just yours)"? Yeah, you probably missed that.
No offense but , are you FLIPPING kidding me ?!
www.nationmaster.com/country-i…
What was that link supposed to prove? Most of those countries are patriarchal and follow male-based, monotheistic religions.
And if you dare play the card of "Muslims don't record rape crimes because they blame the victims" then you can't deny this :
www.worldhunger.org/articles/0…
Uh, the earlier link you gave me was a Muslim site that victim-blamed. A world map of HIV doesn’t prove jack.
You want to blame religion for your own problems caused by yourselves .
Caused by ‘yourselves’? To whom are you referring? What demographic?
So what , Muslims make AIDS and the rest of its siblings pass under the radar ?
What in the holy fuck are you talking about?
When you agitate lust and desires and keep feeding them wherever someone looks , you shouldn't be surprised by the results .
THAT
IS
VIC
TIM
BLA
MING.
I’m not sure what your deal is, but you clearly have a very weak reading comprehension, and a habit of putting words in my mouth. If your next reply doesn’t make more sense than this one, I’m done with you.
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"That’s chock-full of victim-blaming."
And the part where the criminal is executed is written with invisible ink I suppose ?
"When did I do that?"
The "you" in here is a general plural . And I can't count how many times I've heard individuals blaming Muslims for whatever ridiculous things happening to them .
"and I didn’t say all rapists were Muslim. Nor did I say rape was non-existent before, nor that Muslims created it in the first place."
You literally said this :
[For example, when many people who called themselves Muslim started moving to the UK in droves, rape rates went through the roof]
And even if I don't know the details , I can safely say this utterly a myth .
"Please do. And do so without using a Muslim site."
Muslims site or not , it is non of your concern as long as evidence and proof are presented .
[2) SEXUAL OFFENCES IN NORWAY IN 2004One argument commonly posted on the web to smear Norway's muslims with the label of 'rapists' is based on the following misrepresentation of the facts - the allegation that NON-WESTERN IMMIGRANTS (synonymous with Muslims, since they comprise the majority of this group) are responsible for 65% of rapes.Let's check the maths.(Statistic Norway 2004)
All Sexual offences in Norway = 571 in 2004
By Norwegians 511 (89%)
By Western Immigrants 27 (5%)
By NON-WESTERN IMMIGRANTS 33 (6%)Those who wish to smear muslims quote 65% of rapes. The official 2004 statistics indicate 6% of sexual offences by NON-WESTERN IMMIGRANTS... or 33 sex crimes in total across the whole country.Does that sound like an epidemic?When you find out the real numbers, the lies, damn lies and distortion created by misquoted percentages becomes clear. What may have started its life, in fact, as an honest calculation of 6.5%, has been misread/ misprinted as 65% and grabbed as proof of a muslim rape epidemic by European anti-muslim propagandists. Its repetition ad nauseum across the net reinforces the perception that it must be accurate, when readily available government records prove it to be a classic example of 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'.Moral of the story - When you are GIVEN PERCENTAGES, DEMAND TO SEE THE NUMBERS they were derived from. Nothing less will bring you closer to the truth...]
And his sources are :
www.ssb.no/en/befolkning
www.ssb.no/en/lovbrudda
And this is another one if you want :
electronicintifada.net/blogs/a…
And heck , there's a Christian who refuted this lie . The issue is his offensive language . If necessary , I'll clean it up and quote .
"Except that I’ve heard this from various people, and various different accounts and sources."
Since you love talking about fallacies , this one is called - in our language at least - the fallacy of authority .
[Many people don’t want to address the problems in their own religions/movements/what-have-yous, and this is just one example.]
With your media badgering us day in day out and spreading rotten lies continuously , why do we need to help you with that ? That's IF - and a thousand lines under "if" - the so called problems are real .
"Maybe that’s because you don’t know me, and haven’t seen all the times I do call out Christians, Jews, and Atheists?"
Once more , the "you" in this one is plural . Tell me of one channel which called Craig Hicks a terrorist . Or any of those Buddhists in Burma .
"What was that link supposed to prove? Most of those countries are patriarchal and follow male-based, monotheistic religions."
More like secular systems . Heck , the only government still practicing some things of Islam is Saudi Arabia . That's only in punishments and that isn't always applied . You're blaming Islam for the state of its people AFTER they stopped working with it . Correction , after they were forced to stop working with it .
Regardless , the major cause of rape is solely the constant agitation of desires and lust . One of our brothers at a certain forum made a thread named [Sexual obsession among Arabians : A lie Atheists promote] and my was he spot on . If needed , I'll bring up what he said .
"Uh, the earlier link you gave me was a Muslim site that victim-blamed. A world map of HIV doesn’t prove jack."
.................. Wut ?
OK , first of all , you clearly have an issue to the degree that you call that victim blaming . The issue is that you never want to look into the reasons of the problem . You never stop to think that maybe there's something with the victims which helped this crime . I did say a criminal remains a criminal and is to be brought to justice . Still , the issue with your societies which you want to force on us doesn't disappear with that .
And yes , a map of AIDS proves a lot . Had rape been a severe issue among us as it is with you , we would have suffered the same consequences .
Ibn Majah :
[“The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned to us and said: ‘O Muhajirun, there are five things with which you will be tested, and I seek refuge with Allah lest you live to see them: Immorality never appears among a people to such an extent that they commit it openly, but plagues and diseases that were never known among the predecessors will spread among them.]
"Caused by ‘yourselves’? To whom are you referring? What demographic?"
Any system besides Islam . It makes me sick when someone blames Islam when he doesn't even work with it . That's like a kid getting his hands burned by the oven and then blames his father who warned him not to play with fire . This majorly means the western world in Europe and NA .
And "victim blaming" my foot . When I say you agitate lust all the time , I refer to the usage of women's bodies in every bloody thing . It's a good thing I have ad block ! You don't place food in front of someone and then tell him to never eat it . Yes , rape remains a disgusting crime but you remain to blame for easing it and creating such twisted people . On the other hand , Islam tells us to lower our gaze , refrain from contacting foreign women unless necessary , and many other things to tame one's lust .
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Egad. For someone who adores (misusing) the word 'fallacy', you certainly don't know how to hold your own in an argument, word things correctly, link to relevant sites, speak without contradicting yourself, or understand simple concepts. I'm done with you.
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You asked a genuine question and met a harsh treatment with references to irrelevant statistics and more logical fallacies, with maybe some truths in them. So let me try to answer your question instead.
I believe, most of the Islamic governments are corrupt, their regions are a clusterfuck and their societal norms are outright rotten. So, I believe it applies to most of the Muslims being generally worse compared to the people of more developed and well educated countries. Whether the Islam itself makes the situation worse, better, non-different or both worse and better at the same time is another subject of study. For that question, one should look no further than Qur'an itself in theory; not the people claiming to apply or follow it's laws. However the book itself, might have been subject to change by the clergy/aristocracy/whatever ruler for their own goals. So that leaves almost no answers to the question itself. In fact the whole debate seems like such a total mess to me that it is one of the reasons why I choose stay an atheist. Not the dominant reason in itself, but I believe a quest to find the true religion is doomed from the start.
As funny as it seems, there may be no true scotsman after all, save for the few that are by total accident. Though, I think the answer to these questions are irrelevant. We, as humanity, should stop wasting time with those debates. In my view, most societies that happen to be looked as predominantly muslim -whether what they practice is true islam or not- are in need of help. The fact that it may be a case of being a muslim on the street, and a sinner on the privacy is irrelevant as well (there are many, MANY people doing that as well. I can provide non-contradictory real life examples if you wish). Religion is relevant in such a debate, since a follower of a religion has to follow it's moral rules regardless. The religion we must consider just might not be the true origins of the religion societies seem to believe. This is my thought on the subject.
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Thank you for your response.
I believe, most of the Islamic governments are corrupt, their regions are a clusterfuck and their societal norms are outright rotten. So, I believe it applies to most of the Muslims being generally worse compared to the people of more developed and well educated countries.
I believe that any theocracy is inherently corrupt, and I do agree that many countries that are ruled by so-called Muslim governments are fucked up (have a vagina? NO CAR FOR YOU! Gay? DEATH!). The second sentence has me a bit perplexed, though, since I find it hard to believe that "most of the Muslims" and "people of more developed and well educated countries" are mutually exclusive. Don't get me wrong, I do find at least 75% of Abrahamic religions to be inherently flawed, but there are many Muslims who live in "developed" countries... though we may be talking at cross-purposes here, since I'm not sure what your personal definitions are.
In fact the whole debate seems like such a total mess to me that it is one of the reasons why I choose stay an atheist.
Here's my stance: "Respect those who claim to seek the truth. Doubt those who claim to have found it." Does that makes sense?
The fact that it may be a case of being a muslim on the street, and a sinner on the privacy is irrelevant as well (there are many, MANY people doing that as well. I can provide non-contradictory real life examples if you wish).
Thanks, but no need; I get that concept very well. However, I am a little curious as to your stance on other major world religions, and the countries they cover. If you don't feel like answering here, feel free to PM me. Again, thanks for your answer.
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You fail to show how I "misuse" the word . I clearly stated that your saying "I heard it from many people and sources" doesn't make it right by default . That IS a fallacy . Even the Wikipedia has a page about it named "Argument from Authority" .
And all of that was simply because you insisted on accusing Muslims . Not only did you refrain from even trying to prove it , but you have the nerve tell me I don't back things up .
I DO link to relevant sites . If a statistic site isn't relevant then I don't know what is !
And that's clearly far better than someone who thinks his word is enough proof . Where did YOU - single "you" - link to a relevant site ?
You fail to show how I "contradict myself" .
Seriously , the amount of relevant things in this reply of yours is an absolute zero . So let me get this straight : A brother makes a picture saying Islam prohibits rape - You don't flipping say !!! - , you stick your nose into the business and must bring up how there are bad Muslims as if Muslims are Islam and as if we ever said Muslims are perfect , I tell you we are not obliged to apologize for acts which are not from Islam or even spend our days saying they are wrong as is implied by this statement of yours :
[Whether or not you agree with them, they are your bedfellows. What are you doing to combat this?]
I tell you the myth of "Muslims make rape statics hit the roof" is a myth and give you examples of such myth in other countries , you flip out and start badgering me without addressing a single thing .
Yup , the usual routine for me . Go ahead , hit and split with and block like the coward you are . If you're not up to it , don't provoke the lion in the first place .
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Thank you for your hard work here. I am really impressed!
I would not have done a job so well done as you did but it is good to know the facts and that, even amongst themselves, there is truth against all lies spread against Islam.
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I'm really impressed, too! He did such a good job that DeviantArt looked at his comments, saw how utterly disgusting and offensive they were, and hid them due to violating their policy.
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It is fine, really, to not be able to hold an argument or failing to prove one's point of view.
There was anger in the words that were written to you, one cannot deny that, but I fail to see how they were offensive or disgusting. You certainly do not deserve any of it, were they really there, but... the one thing you could have done was, perhaps, play a better card than using the rather old and disappointing method of disregarding the claims of your opponent by attacking the way they write rather than what their words intended to convey.
Oh, by the way, as a writer here on dA, I found no truth to your claims of how they contradicted themselves and the relevant sites that were linked were rather enlightening to a Muslim who looks with sad eyes at how people, such as yourself, are so ready to believe the worst about my faith and those of my elk with no proper search into the many truths that are camouflaged before your eyes by the deceits of, as you stated it, "many accounts and sources".
Should I, a very proper and proud Muslim, say that the words of both Nayzak and that other person hold no lies, that the way they wrote it reflect Islam as I know it, would that make you re-read them again and look if there ever were the slightest chance that your convictions are misplaced? Given your replies, I would declare you a lost cause but perhaps...
There quite a few things you cannot get from me: a properly orchestrated response like any of those you received to your initial comment, but you will also never receive from me any word that is either degrading or hateful so I will leave you with "peace be upon you".
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Hm, calling me a "lost cause", assuming I'm ready to "believe the worst" and have done "no proper search", erroneously claiming I attacked a style of writing, and then saying you won't give me a degrading word. Interesting.
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Hmm. Good try, Nayzak, but not good enough against someone who's become more than passingly familiar with your religion since a certain Tuesday in September of 2001 (which, based on your writings and statements off DA, you likely celebrated*). The facts are, under Islamic law, proof of rape requires a direct confession on the part of the rapist, or that the woman (child, goat or whatever, the average Muslim male's taste in sexual partners being rather catholic, or so I've herd**) presents at least four male witnesses (hair dressers and fashion designers need not apply), not a very firm 'NO' in my book, or rather, your book, and without said proof, the victim's claim of rape is considered a confession of adultery (punishable by stoning***), the only 'evidence' from a woman's mouth Islamic courts are willing to listen to. And as a side note, let's not forget, shall we, that around 60% of the world's Muslim population believe that killing those who leave the faith is A-OK, and the percentage of those who find the idea of slaughtering infidels even remotely off putting is too negligible to notice. What an enlightened culture! (and spare me the crap about Muslim culture giving the world the 0; the zero was conceived in ancient Egypt, long before your culture's founder was--but thanks for the fez, though; fezzes are cool).
And one more thing: YOU ES AY! Fuck yeah! (If you'll pardon my French; sorry, couldn't help m'self cos I fuckin' love that damn movie, 'cept for the puppet poop part--connilinctus, yes ma'm, coprophilia, no thanks!)
Okay, boys, I got to vent my spleen pretty good, so now it's your turn; let the (no doubt profanity laden and illiterate) screams of 'Islamophobe!', etc., etc. ad nauseum, ring forth (gays shut the hell up; if you can't take a joke****, get back in the closet). Just remember that when, should the Islamofacists get their way, you're next in line for the chopping block or burning cage (first up for that, as far as I known, was a downed Jordanian pilot, a Muslim, mind, so ya know they'd really make it hot for an infidel).
*Fair enough; I felt pretty good when Obama--sorry, meant Osama--Bin Laden got taken out (tsk, tsk, Bin-bin; you shoulda grabbed taller girls to hide behind), my only regret being that he wasn't buried a few weeks later, in a pig's skin, with the event broadcast live, in living color, to every place the significance of said event would be appreciated; had such rites been immediately made mandatory for the burial of slain Islamic terrorists (my favorite kind), there'd be far fewer, if any, around today (what potential terrorist would wanna risk missing out on heaven, not to mention all those virgins, though by now there can't be many of those left, anyway).
**Yes, I omitted the 'a' on purpose; it's a joke, son--baa, homonymous humor is probably wasted on yew lot, anyweigh (ba-dump-bump).
***The rock kind, I mean, and no, not just in the good ole days; a Syrian woman was sentenced to stoning for adultery on the first of February this very year. Thankfully she survived the stoning and was able to escape.
****Referring of course to my admittedly cliched hairdressers and fashion designers crack, which many younger readers may not have gotten (the 'get back in the closet' bit is of sufficient currency not to be missed by anyone, I think).
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Failing try devil star , VERY failing .
"but not good enough against someone who's become more than passingly familiar with your religion since a certain Tuesday in September of 2001"
The very beginning of your reply makes us question your way of thinking . If only I had a dollar each time someone played the card of 9/11 , Bill Gates would have been envious of me by now . There are factors in this which make using this card meaningless :
1) And I don't care the slightest if you call me a conspiracy theorist , you will NOT make me believe in such a terribly executed stage play . The contradictions are so many I might collapse . That means contradictions with basic physics , common sense , and the very story of the incident itself . Had it really been done by the base , we could simply have proven them wrong from Quran and Sunnah . Still , they didn't .
2) As said , we have Quran and Sunnah to prove any outlaws (called Khawarij) wrong . Heck , I don't think there are any people who write essays against evil doers who claim are of their belief as much as Muslims do . And still , you have the nerve run your mouths . I barely hear of a Christian condemning clinic bombing or many other acts . The same goes for any other group be they Jews , Buddhists , Hindus , or Atheists . We are not in a defending position .
3) According to your flawed logic , your belief - WHICHEVER it is - is evil by default . And since I'm sure you don't have an idea what you're talking about , here :
www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terr…
All terrorists are Muslims except 99.6% who are not . Ironic , don't you think ? Believe me , I can bring loads and loads of criminal acts done by people of any other belief for each one you bring up and that includes your political terrorism which completely dwarfs group terrorism - if that's the name - which YOU made yourselves .
And to anger you even more , keep in mind that people embraced Islam MORE after the farces you made of 9/11 and Charlie Helldo .
"The facts are, under Islamic law, proof of rape requires a direct confession on the part of the rapist, or that the woman presents at least four male witnesses"
And of course , you're more ignorant than the sole of your shoe of what you hate so much .
islamqa.info/en/72338
[Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote.]
Also , you speak as if every single person accused of rape is a rapist by default and whoever doubts that is blah blah blah evil . Have you stopped for one second to think : What if you're wrong ? This is a punishment for a crime we're talking about here . Just declaring someone guilty is serious and needs investigation let alone the actual punishment which is death in case he's married . That is why there has to be no room for doubt in case someone is to receive it .
In regard to the lowly comments you make between brackets . They show what you're really made of . And it's very cheap . I heard they say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit . That isn't a bad thing in itself since it is still wits . But when that is all you have , THAT is a serious issue .
"And as a side note, let's not forget, shall we, that around 60% of the world's Muslim population believe that killing those who leave the faith is A-OK"
Don't you mean "As a red herring" ? Or maybe your psychotic issues make you unable to stop slandering for one second and you must let everything out or you'll die ?
This one has its own answer , but it remains unrelated to the current subject . The likes of you might need therapy for your obsession . It's dangerous .
"and the percentage of those who find the idea of slaughtering infidels even remotely off putting is too negligible to notice."
Just "slaughtering infidels" ? Without a context or a clear understanding ? Yup , the usual nonsense . And that's one fat lie you all love to keep repeating .
"What an enlightened culture!"
If you want , I can show you some gems of the Islamic civilization out of whole seas of those gems . Zero or no zero , only an insolent liar has the nerve deny the great achievements of Muslims on all aspects with a straight face .
"Okay, boys, I got to vent my spleen pretty good, so now it's your turn; let the (no doubt profanity laden and illiterate) screams of 'Islamophobe!'"
It seems this petty breeze thinks of his self a storm . Sorry to burst your bubble kid . We'll do much more than proving you're a phobe and an obsessed man (who happens to lack basic manners) . You seem to think this rant you made is a "finishing blow" to us . And I'll do my best to kick you out of your lala world , believe me .
So let's see the axis of your rants :
1) Your ludicrous claims about rape not being punished in Islam . Meh , I just gave you a slap with those quotes and I might give you more about your own belief in the subject if you decide to continue , regardless of what that belief is .
2) Your usual rant about "terrorism" which abuses the very word and gives it a different meaning from what it actually means . It seems I'll need to teach you your own language which is my second really . Either way , you are not one to talk . Regardless of your belief , I can bring far more atrocious acts done by people from that belief be it in the type of the act or in the number of times it is done .
3) It's almost hilarious how someone talks about justice and goodness while he's clearly obsessed with genitalia , sex , feces , and many other things that he has to mention them in almost every single paragraph multiple times .
We have this :
Tirmithi :
[The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "A true believer is not involved in taunting, or frequently cursing (others) or in indecency or abusing."]
What do you have ?
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Aye, and if I had a ha'penny for every supporter of Islamic terrorism, overt or otherwise, who put terrorism in smart quotes, whether in print or in the air, George Soros would be turning green for reasons other than his bilious nature, so thanks for the contribution.
And you're a 9/11 "truther". How quaint. And oxymoronic. But not surprising.
As for my "try" (with air quotes!) being a failed one, your lengthy reply proves otherwise, as just such a reply was exactly what I was hoping for, and in fact you far exceeded my expectations, so thanks for that as well. Granted, I'd rather have heard from Nayzak himself, no doubt an even more worthy disputant, but I suppose he's too busy carrying on the work of his renowned namesake. And making more excellent art, I trust. (Please note that I did not put excellent in quotes, of any kind; I would never even attempt to hide my genuine admiration for his artistic abilities, and being Otaku, I especially appreciate his mastery of the manga/anime style, though I have to admit that my use of 'hide' was a bit of a dig, can ya dig it?)
Since addressing your oh, so satisfying riposte point by point in detail would be a game not worth even a Brobdingnagian candle, I'll leave you, for now, with the following:
I rather suspect that my understanding of physics is a tad sounder than your own, classically speaking at any rate, and it would seem I'm a bit better boned up on structural engineering, metallurgy, the amplification of explosive force and fuel-air burn temperatures in confined spaces, plane shearing (no pun intended) and the other factors you imply knowledge of in your ad hoc 9/11 "analysis". Nor would I call you a conspiracy theorist. That would be an insult. To conspiracy theorists. Proper ones are far more informed, and dare I say, more logical in their reasoning, which is typically based on their own research I might add. Regurgitating stale vomit doesn't make it any the fresher.
My commentary was not a rant. You've not yet experienced a ranting from me. You're not worth the energy expense. Yet. My manners are impeccable, when appropriate to the occasion. I find it difficult to cross words with such as you without resorting to a cross word or two. I should also like to point out that the right not to be offended does not in fact exist. Being exceptionally thick skinned, I rarely take offense at anything. Certainly not the tiny barbs you threw. I appreciate the effort, but please, do try harder next time, won't you. You'll no doubt be just as ineffectual, but I'll groan a bit just to make you happy. Probably be a new experience for you. As for angering me, don't make me laugh. Anymore than I already am, that is.
So sorry, but my bubble has not only not been burst, but was in fact only more inflated by your hot air. Nor am I anything but modest, to a fault even, even if I do say so myself. I've never lived in La La Land, but I hear it's a fun place to visit. I bet the Muslim equivalent is sheer paradise, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, but the fare seems a bit steep. And it's probably getting a little short on bliss by now, anyway, if you know what I mean, grin-grin.
I certainly didn't believe I was landing a finishing blow. Merely a little prick at an even smaller one. And, oh yes, I shall continue; your threats make that mandatory. Should be amusing, if nothing else. It would be even more amusing, immensely so in fact, were you to make the attempt to teach me a lesson face to face (all you need to find me is in my DA profile), assuming you have the stones for it. It would leave me with quite a mess to clean up, but the garbage bin's just round the back. I'll leave a nice tip for the trash truck guys for having to deal with carrion.
Frankly though, face to face or otherwise, neither you nor any of your ill-conceived ilk could teach me jack about jack, nor Jill I should imagine--it's a wonder there are so many of you, really. Or do you reproduce by fission? By the way, I'm not a coprophile. Almost a pity, really, as I could have had a whale of a time wallowing in the ocean of shi--sorry, crap you've spewed. I do, however, greatly enjoy the mommy and daddy dance, as often as possible, so yeah, if it's genitalia of the female persuasion you mean, I'm, like, way into that, obviously, often head first. Though I suspect that your taste in that area runs to meat and two veg. I don't drink, though, so that's a point in my favor, I suppose, but I do smoke like the proverbial chimney, which I'm sure is good news. Ah, cigarettes, smooth, silky cigarettes. They're especially satisfying after a prolonged shag... well, you'll just to take my word on it. There's a brand with a nice camel on, and Turkish tobacco in the mix. Not trying to tempt you or anything. That would be naughty. But out of concern for your health, they say a glass of wine with dinner is good for the heart, you know. Now I am being devilish, aren't I.
And just a few more, more off the cuff thoughts and observations:
Even if true, .4% amounts to a rather significant number when you consider that there are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world (roughly 23% of global population, .6% U.S.), and they're reducing the "infidel" population out of all proportion to their numbers. I assume 'Charlie Heldo" is a little joke and not a typo. Given the nature of that publication I'm sure the staff would have got a laugh out of that, were they still alive. I'm wondering what that Kosher market did to offend, aside from the obvious. It's often said of late, most vociferously by that sappy, Muslim-raised satrap in the White House and his crotch licking lapdogs in the media, that Islamic terrorism is not Islamic, i.e. those committing terrorism in the name of Islam are just using it as an excuse; but why would they bother unless said faith in at least some way supports their actions? The Muslims flocking to their side from round the world to join in the fight certainly seem to think so. They can't all be totally ignorant of their own religion, so are you calling them liars, too? Then again, your gloating over the ranks of your "religion of peace" swelling in the wake of 9/11 suggests that you yourself are of a like mind. Killing rabid dogs is not a crime; it's a public service. I've done my bit in that regard, I'm happy to say. My lowly remarks were not made between [brackets], but rather were (parenthetical). *what an asterisk* You should consider a career in TV punditry or journalism; looks like there might be an opening soon at NBC, and you'd fit right in. Your use of the term axis is contextually invalid. I resent being called psychotic; monomaniacal would be much the more accurate diagnosis; obviously your grasp of mental pathology is also weak. What a shock. I also resent that you didn't call me a Zionist. As a rule those who learn English as a second language speak and write it with much greater fluency than those born to it, though I now know, in the latter regard at least, that there is indeed an exception to every rule. I applaud your attempts at using vernacular, a form of dialectical humor I myself enjoy, but the best I can do is a golf clap, as you're not really very good at that, either. Chin music seems to be your forte. By the way, my own term for Islamic terrorist is Muslimaniac (that's copyrighted, mind). And that's enough for now, I should think.
Well, it's been fun, kiddo, you sure showed me what for, boy oh boy, and howdy, except for the 99.99% of the time you didn't, but I've got bigger, tastier fish to fry, and I'm mixing up my own special blend of tartar sauce, with extra tart, so,
Ciao! for now. As there's no emoticon for it, picture, if you will, a cute little fist with middle finger up. (Yes, technically there is no middle finger, but that particular digit is widely called thus for birding purposes, oddly enough--guess you could call it rule of thumb, so in this instance I bow to common usage.)
PS. Please do consider paying ole Oni a visit. My sweetie AR and I will give you a nice warm, albeit regrettably brief, welcome. If you can't make it, send a friend. Or a couple, three if you like. The more the merrier, I always say. Bit of a drag to the bin, but there's always the front curb. You should know what a curb is; I've given you a good close look at one this whole time, if you catch my drift.
PPS. Going to visit you--your site I mean--in just a sec; I know it's going to be super (now that's a pun, and a post scriptural one to boot).
Oh, almost forgot!
K. Edward Holland:
A small breeze may herald a tornado the likes of which even the windiest blowhard may not be able to stand against.
M. Knight Shyamalan:
What a twist!
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